Tribal Expansion Issues: Facts and Fiction
Are Facts Important?
Kathy Cleary
The renaming of highway 154 to the “Chumash Highway” is generating some interesting conversations about facts vs. fiction, and representative government. A couple of days ago, a few friends were talking about a radio interview they had heard in March between Santa Ynez chairperson, Vincent Armenta, and 4th district Santa Barbara County Supervisor, Joni Gray…an interview that took place just days after Armenta announced the “door was closed” on the County.
In the interview between Armenta and Supervisor Gray, Armenta provides us with the “facts” that define the Santa Ynez Band. Here are some excerpts from the interview (http://www.am1440.com/, “Post Debate Interview”).
“Supervisor Joni Gray …Give me a little background as far as the Santa Ynez Band of Indians are concerned.
Vince Armenta: Well, our tribe and it’s been well documented has been in the area for well over 10,000 years. As a matter of fact, interesting enough, I was reading court documents from the late 1800’s, where in the Santa Barbara County Superior Court referenced, on some court documents, referenced the tribe and its members and what’s interesting to see on that lawsuit where of course they were taking our land away.
Joni Gray – And it had to be that title stuff, right?
And it was the treaty of Hidalgo?
Vince Armenta – Yes. And it referenced my Grandmother. It referenced my Grandmothers parents.”
Vince Armenta – Their last name was Pina and Solares.”
. . . . “Joni Gray – You know, Vince. Maybe you could – ‘cause I have no doubt that you’re Chumash and that the Chumash – you know just lead us through that. You said your ancestors were here 10,000 years ago you went down and were going through the different treaties and so on. Your ancestors’ names were on those treaties. And some kinds of other things that have to do with your historical background. Because what we want to know is what is what is.
Vince Armenta - I’ve actually looked at Bureau censuses as early as 1850 and of course there wasn’t much documentation really from the Bureau of Indian Affairs before that time.”
“Vincent Armenta: But we became officially federally recognized in 1901 through an act of Congress.
Joni Gray – Was that the Pina, Solares name or was it
-
Vince Armenta – No it was the Santa Ynez Band of Mission Chumash Indians.”
ARMENTA’S INTERVIEW. We did some research.
Armenta: “Well, our tribe and it’s been well documented has been in the area for well over 10,000 years”: Armenta’s statement that there is documentation that his “tribe” is 10,000 years old is amazing. As Armenta himself says: - “I’ve actually looked at Bureau censuses as early as 1850 and of course there wasn’t much documentation really from the Bureau of Indian Affairs before that time.” Yet, Supervisor Gray doesn’t even question him.
In actuality, at the time of European arrival, there were hundreds of Indian “towns” in California that were very independent from each other. They spoke different but related languages. “Chumash” was a name given to these people of these many different “towns” or “tribes” because of a commonality in their language, not because there was one Chumash “Nation,” or 10,000 year old Santa Ynez tribe as Armenta states.
In actuality, the Santa Ynez Band of Mission Indians were people from all over California and Mexico living at the Santa Ynez Mission identified in late 1800’s and early 1900’s court cases.
The treaty of Guadalupe “Hidalgo” was the treaty between the United States and Mexico that brought the end to the Mexican-American war signed February 2, 1848. There were no Indian signatories to the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo.
Bureau Censuses that we have seen list Indians as Mission. There is no designation of Chumash.
1901 Act of Congress officially recognizing the Santa Ynez Band of Mission Chumash Indians cannot be found by our researchers. Prove it.
QUESTIONS THAT MUST BE ANSWERED:
Since tribal governments have a monopoly on a 27 billion dollar (and growing) self regulated gambling industry, should the public have expectations that these “governments” be based on fact and not fiction?
Santa Barbara County Supervisors are entrusted to make very important decisions. The 250 million dollar a year (plus) Chumash Casino is one of the largest entities in Santa Barbara County. Gambling is well documented to have significant negative impact on surrounding communities.
Should the public have expectations that the Supervisors be proactive in seeking facts? In the interview, Gray references her 4th grade class on California Indians. Should the public have expectations that Supervisor Gray study this in greater detail than the education she received in the fourth grade?
Our local, state and federal representative governments, greedy for gambling dollars, are empowering these “tribal governments” through casino monopolies. These “tribal governments” and our representative government ignore the surrounding community’s voice and rights because they negotiate on a government to government basis.
Isn’t this hijacking of democracy?
To read the interview, go to www.polosyv.org
INTERVIEW WITH VINCENT ARMENTA, March, 2007
Interview by Joni Gray, 4th District Supervisor for Santa Barbara County.
_ indicates a break in thought, not skipped text.
Joni Gray – We’re glad to talk to_so lucky. I can’t believe that in the studio, we have Chairman of the Chumash, Vincent Armenta. Vincent called us a couple weeks, three or four weeks ago, and we talked on the phone and I said, “Boy, I’d really love to have you on the radio.” And he said okay and here he is. So welcome Chairman Armenta. Thank you for being with us.
Vince Armenta – Thank you Joni and it is always a pleasure to be here.
Joni Gray – Well, you’re one of my favorites. I admire the way you do things and that you’ve successfully managed and run the Chumash Santa Ynez Band of Indians for 10 years now, Vince?
Vince Armenta – Actually since 1999 so_
Joni Gray – Almost a little more than 10 years
Vince Armenta – Almost 8 years
Joni Gray - Almost 8
Vince Armenta – After this term it will be just over 10.
Joni Gray - I thought that if I could, I’d like to ask you a little bit about the tribe, the membership, the way that you are elected and selected and the kind of – You’ve got a huge job running a major operation in the valley and also I know you go up and down the state as well as nationwide to talk about how to run a casino and how to run a business. So, again thanks for being here. Give me a little background as far as the Santa Ynez Band of Indians are concerned.
Vince Armenta: Well, our tribe and it’s been well documented has been in the area for well over 10,000 years. As a matter of fact, interesting enough, I was reading court documents from the late 1800’s, where in the Santa Barbara County Superior Court referenced, on some court documents, referenced the tribe and its members and what’s interesting to see on that lawsuit where of course they were taking our land away.
Joni Gray – And it had to be that title stuff, right?
And it was the treaty of Hidalgo?
Vince Armenta – Yes. And it referenced my Grandmother. It referenced my Grandmothers parents.
Joni Gray – Was their last name Armenta?
Vince Armenta – Their last name was Pina and Solares
Joni Gray - Spell it for me.
Vince Armenta – P-I-N-A was my grandmothers maiden name. And then Solares S-O-L-A-R-E-S (he respells it) S-O-L-O-R-E-S. Um. It was pretty interesting and even at that time – everybody knows the history of the missions and Indians throughout the entire state of California built the missions. But we became officially federally recognized in 1901 through an act of Congress.
Joni Gray – Was that the Pina, Solares name or was it
-
Vince Armenta – No it was the Santa Ynez Band of Mission Chumash Indians. So, we’ve been here of course for a long time. Like I said, well documentation. There’s thousands and hundreds of thousands of sites throughout the valley, cultural sites throughout the valley which is rather interesting. It seems like every day I find a new one that I had missed before.
Joni Gray – And it feels good, doesn’t it? You know the thing that bothered me is my favorite subject in all of school was when I got to study California Indians in the 4th grade and so. All my life, I’m looking for bowls and the kinds of things that and for so long people just tromped on this stuff is what I found.
Vince Armenta – And that’s true. Unfortunately, it’s still happening and there’s many places in the county where zoning is being changed and these cultural sites are being demolished. I mean, you said it, they are being trampled over and particularly in the Santa Ynez Valley. Fortunately there are a few laws out there and more and more are coming up every time you take a look at it that are trying to protect these cultural resources that are not only valuable to the county and valuable to history, they are extremely valuable to the tribe and it’s membership.
Joni Gray – How many folks are in your tribe?
Vince Armenta – We have 150 members.
Joni Gray – And their ages range from?
Vince Armenta – Um. 6 to 93.
Joni Gray - 150 from 6
Vince Armenta – to 93
Joni Gray – 93. Now, do they all live in the Santa Ynez Valley, Vince?
Vince Armenta – No. Not all of them live in the Santa Ynez Valley. We didn’t have housing on the reservation until 1979.
Joni Gray – Oh, I didn’t know that.
Vince Armenta – Yeah. There were a few homes. There was maybe five homes on the reservation up until that time. There was no running water on the reservation until late 60’s early 70’s.
Joni Gray – You know, I was born and raised here and I don’t even know what was on the reservation. What – You know I just thought it was this piece of property.
There wasn’t any building.
Vince Armenta – There was, like I said, a few scattered homes on there. I believe it was 5 homes prior to 1979. 5 or 7 homes and then the first housing projects came in and that’s when membership started – members of the tribe started moving back in.
Joni Gray – When did you move on to the reservation?
Vince Armenta – 1979
Joni Gray – Oh, you did. Your family or just you and your wife?
Vince Armenta Uhhh. No. My family. I wasn’t old enough to be on my own.
Joni Gray – See, I didn’t think you looked that old, but you know. But I know you were a Wrangler at the Bixby Ranch.
Vince Armenta – I was a ranch hand throughout High School at the Bixby Ranch. Also a dude wrangler, believe it or not, at the Alisal Ranch through High School. I’ve always worked and enjoyed working and throughout High School I enjoyed working. So I’ve had the opportunity, especially when I worked at the Alisal Ranch to see a lot of the valley and see a lot of the cultural resources that are out there. The Alisal Ranch is rich in cultural resources. I mean if you go on to their private restaurant you’ll see many artifacts displayed. I don’t believe they should be displayed, but never the less displayed throughout the ranch and throughout the restaurants.
Joni Gray - What are some of those they you – give me a
Vince Armenta – There are bowls. Different tools made of stone. I’ve ridden up in there and found sites that were intact.
Joni Gray – Up on the ranch?
Vince Armenta – Up on the ranch, to the point that they looked as if somebody had been there just a couple years ago.
Joni Gray – Wow.
Vince Armenta – I’m sure at this point they’ve been destroyed. In fact, I have no doubt in my mind they were destroyed simply because of the lack of respect.
Joni Gray – That is just really amazing. I would love to see something like that. Beautiful ranch. And actually you have had all kinds of experiences. I’d like to hear just a tiny bit about what happened as you worked on the Cojo and Jalama and a description of that place. Beautiful. Isn’t it?
Vince Armenta – It’s a gorgeous area. I mean it’s almost, I believe total combined is 30,000 acres. I worked out there 3 or 4 summers, lived out there 3 or 4 summers and I was working 5 to 6 days a week.
Joni Gray – For those that are listening. I’m talking to Vince Armenta and we are now talking about the Cojo and Jalama Ranch which is on Point Conception, is that the point?
Vince Armenta – Yes.
Joni Gray - And it’s a 30,000 acre ranch. Much, much of it is on the coast. Gorgeous hills. Beautiful trees. One of the incredibly unspoiled places as far a California is concerned.
Vince Armenta – It’s a long coast line all the way from the Hollister Ranch all the way to the property at Vandenberg Air Force Base.
Joni Gray – We’re talking to Vince Armenta, the Chairman of the Chumash Santa Ynez Band of Indians. We’ll be right back after traffic and weather.
Joni Gray – Good morning and welcome back to 1440 1410. I’m Joni Gray and I’ve had the joy and pleasure for sitting in for Hoot for the last week. He’s winding up his week in Hawaii and I’m winding up my week as being able to talk about the history of Guadalupe, the history of Santa Maria, the history of Lompoc. (some conversation about traffic and former guests) and now we have Vince Armenta who is probably the most historical of all of us because his ancestors were here long before any of these other folks we’ve talked about. Vince and I just talked about the history of the Chumash Tribe in the Santa Ynez Valley.
And Vince we again are really happy to have you here and we’re going to move to, as everybody knows that usually catches this show. This is what they refer to as Stir Fry Friday because they have the King of Stir Fry Andy Caldwell here. Welcome back Andy. I see you finally slipped in the door.
Andy Caldwell – I got a bigger pot to stir in today.
That’s for sure.
LAUGHTER
Joni Gray - You know Vince. You guys talk a lot and I know a big controversy has been the more slots No More Slots, get in my business, stay out of my business do this, do that so we’ve been talking about that. So, you know, basically I think I will go straight to you Andy and have you maybe ask Vince a couple questions and I ask you and so on and so forth.
Andy Caldwell - There’s a couple things I’ve been listening to and I was late because I was a rubber necker (Laughter and short conversation about the traffic problem Joni was discussing earlier)…Obviously, I want to thank these great radio stations because this is what, in my opinion, local radio’s all about which is what you’ve been doing all week, Joni and what we are doing right now and the opportunity I had to debate some of the POLO and No More Slots people the other day. As you know, Chairman, I always get nervous any time I’m speaking about the tribe because I’m not a spokesman for the tribe. Usually if I talk, I might get everybody mad. (Laughter and inaudible talk) I thought the lowest blow, the two lowest blows, I’ve heard yet. Especially in light of Joni and your conversation of how far back the tribe goes is that you’re not a Chumash at all. You’re a Shoshone transplant A and B your reservation isn’t a historical, political village, therefore all this fee-to-trust stuff shouldn’t even apply because it is not a historical village.
Joni Gray – (Sighs very loudly. Comments inaudible).
Andy Caldwell - And of course. One of the things that speaks to me is would it be a surprise that the government when they established reservations had actually displaced Native Americans. You know. How do these guys come up with this stuff that you guys are Shoshone and not Chumash when you have so much history behind you.
Vince Armenta – You know, they’re just grabbing in the air, Andy. Quite honestly they will do anything they can to hold the tribe back. It doesn’t really matter what it is. They’ve been trying to do it for years. You can see through their petitions that they’re gathering and the information they are handing out, during their petitions – obviously they are doing whatever they can and they’re desperate at this point in time to get people to listen to them and believe what they are saying.
Joni Gray – You know, Vince. Maybe you could – ‘cause I have no doubt that you’re Chumash and that the Chumash – you know just lead us through that. You said your ancestors were here 10,000 years ago you went down and were going through the different treaties and so on. Your ancestors’ names were on those treaties. And some kinds of other things that have to do with your historical background. Because what we want to know is what is what is.
Vince Armenta - I’ve actually looked at Bureau censuses as early as 1850 and of course there wasn’t much documentation really from the Bureau of Indian Affairs before that time.
Joni Gray – But they ask people, “What’s your nationality and they ask their names and that’s pretty darn clear.
Vince Armenta – And as they were in a ball and chain building a mission, they were telling them.
Joni Gray – That’s true.
Vince Armenta – And that is exactly the way it is. It’s unfortunate that these individuals come up with their theories, I guess. If you could call it that. Or lack of theories. Um and start saying things like this. It’s an insult to the tribe, obviously. It’s an insult to everyone that lives in the area. It’s an insult to all the professors. It’s an insult to all the universities.
Andy Caldwell – I thought, like I said, it was the lowest blow yet.
Joni Gray – We’re going to have to take a break for traffic and weather….
Joni Gray – Welcome back (plugs to stations, etc.) I am one of the luckiest people in the world. I get to sit here and listen to all this great information.
It’s truly information. So we’ve had an interesting week and right now in the studio we have Andy Caldwell who does basically a lobbyist and a gad fly and an intellectual person who travels around the valley and who makes certain that we all get it right. We also have in the studio with us Chairman of the Chumash Band of Indians for the Santa Ynez Valley. Very successful entrepreneur and leader of a group of folks. Vince Armenta took over as the leader of the Chumash about 8 years ago and actually there were times when the casino wasn’t doing so well and under Vince’s leadership and the folks that are on the business committee now, they are doing quite well.
It’s a place people like to go and it’s a place that employs a lot of folks in our community. So we have Vince in the studio and we have Andy in the studio and Andy is just dying to ask Vince a question.
Andy Caldwell – Chairman, I thought the biggest news last week wasn’t the political theater that occurred once again in Solvang. I call them the Drama Queens of Santa Ynez when they keep having these recurring Town Hall meetings and have nothing new to say. I didn’t think that was the big news. I thought the big news was you going to public comment Tuesday and announcing to the Board of Supervisors that “the door is closed.” Can you tell our audience what was behind that statement and more importantly, what does it mean?
Vince Armenta – Well, what was behind the statement was the fact that I have stressed now, since 1999, the need for communication and mutual respect which I can’t count once, which I can count on one hand any respect that has been shown to our tribe from the county. In recent Santa Maria hearings, based on rumors, the supervisors voted to send a letter to the Governor based on rumors, that they heard about, based on rumors from email blasts by our opposition and again in that meeting we talked about the importance of communication and respect and I was told by the board that I would be involved in all communication and certainly see it before the opposition based on the government to government relationship. Again, somewhere along the line that promise broke down. I made it very clear that eventually the tribe was going to ask me to demand as their leader to stop communication with the county and work with them only in respect to the requirements under law. When I said the door is closed, that’s exactly what it means. The door is closed. We will deal with the county only as we legally have to and at this point in time I think the only legal issues we have with the county is meeting with them once or twice a year to give them money.
Andy Caldwell – This was one of the only Board meetings I didn’t go to. There was nothing on the agenda so I was shocked when I heard about it. You know, my understanding – I’m going to give you two perspectives I have . One of them is it is my understanding and it is also my observation that to a certain degree, the Board of Supervisors and their staff pandered to a local opposition group and became a vehicle and a vessel for that local opposition group to achieve their agenda at the expense of the tribe and at the obvious expense of government to government relationships between the tribe and the county. But the flip side, the flip side I’m going to say – on the other hand the Board did not give the opposition everything they wanted because the opposition wanted them to ask the Governor for a statewide moratorium, they wanted to do this that and the other. And so they did not give them everything they wanted but obviously, I do agree with you, they insulted you guys in the process. How do you balance that?
Vince Armenta – You know, and
Andy Caldwell – Because Brooks does have people breathing down his neck over there.
Vince Armenta - And I realize he does and these are the same people that have been extremely vocal but there was a comment in that February meeting out of the Board of Supervisors, They said, they were stressing a need for an environmental impact report that the casino has within the area. And right after the stress for the need, there was a comment that came from Brooks Firestone’s mouth to Supervisor Carbajal saying if this was – there is a tremendous, huge, negative impact from the casino to the surrounding Santa Ynez Valley. Well apparently what do they need an EIR for. Brook’s mind is made up. I mean, if he’s so intelligent and so brilliant. What do they need a report for? Cause he says there is so he must know what they are. I’ve been reading a document and actually sent a letter to the county about the uniform agricultural rules which I do not have a problem with. I really don’t. But the county performed an environmental impact report that states there will be over 1,800 trips per day on the rural roads in the Santa Ynez Valley, alcohol related, but it’s unavoidable. 1,800 trips is more than 1,000 slot machines would generate in a day, but we’re an impact and 1,800 trips under the influence of alcohol is unavoidable and there’s no possible way to mitigate it. That is the type of treatment we get. What’s the difference? I’ll tell you what the difference is. We don’t serve alcohol accept in the restaurants and certainly not to 1,800 people a day.
Joni Gray – We’re talking to Vince Armenta and Andy Caldwell here in the studio and unfortunately we, guys, are going to be preempted by the President so Vince, one great big thank you. You took your day to come up and chat with us. Appreciate it and we learned a lot….(cut out)
